Ah, I don’t concern myself with fairness or actual dueling rules here, it’s for me more of a lesson in how prejudice colours perception. Goliath’s people will rather have told the story of a great, brave and invincible hero brought low by the underhanded tactics of some lowly shepherd too cowardly to face him man to man. And they would have had a point.


Just as an aside – no they don’t. Boagrius is totally using the normal kind of combat, it’s Achilles who doesn’t. First you exchange a few javelins, then you close for the melee. That’s all over the Iliad, dozens of times.


Do it, man, do it! From what I can guess about your tastes you’re going to love it. Just steer clear from everything that’s not 100% Robert E. Howard. The pastiches and posthumous collaborations twist Conan out of recognition.


Not for me personally, but very much so for the contextual evaluation of Conan’s inaction. That story was written in the 1930s, by a white small-town Texan writing for a white audience. In this milieu, racism is rampant and white man still considered intrinsically superior to the “black primitive”. Viewed in the context of the age this was created, a white man failing to rescue a white girl from a “fate worse than death” by the hands of black men stands out all the more.


I could rant for ages, but I will for now just say that Conan’s a quite ambiguous character.

In one story, he is cut down from a cross onto which he’s been crucified by a very callous chief of desert bandits and joins up with them. Conan rises throughthe ranks to become his second in command – then he maims his former rescuer and drives him into the desert to either die or make it. Now that chief has been a total bastard and deserving of his fate, but that’s not why Conan deposes him – he does so because he wants to be boss.

Then thereis this story wher he abducts a queen and goes through an adventure with her. The two fall for each other – he doesn’t force himself upon her, but they just have an affair. At the end of the story, she wants to return to her country – her people need her. Se pleads with Conan, but he tells her that he won’t let her go – he’abducted her, now she’s his, she's going to continue to couple with him, and she’s got no say in the matter. Now how chivalrous is that?

Don’t get the impression that Conan is some kind of bastard, he can be quite decent and very much so to those who play fair with him, but he’s got his dark, violent and brutal sides, too, and that’s something buried beneath an avalanche of comics and films and pastiches protraying Conan as some kind of barbarian Lancelot. And that’s just not how Howard created him.

End of rant.

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My real name is Michael; use it, if you like.

Oh I wasn't refering to the combat when I said this duel ripped off David an Goliath, rather that Achilles (the little guy) downs the Boagrius (the Giant), I was implying it was taking the symbolism from the Bible and applying it to their movie to portray Achilles in a heroic light. They were trying to capture that "giant-slayer" feel

Hmm, I wonder, if you are interested in playing a Samson, or a Herakles, of an Achilles, then how many others are too? I also wonder if there is a way to meet both yours and higgins tastes.

It would be great to hear back from Val, I would love to see what kind of work he has done on the setting, even if it is just drips or drabs it'd be interesting to veiw a historians works...

... another Historian!! Grettir he's stealing your niche! lol

I think if we all put our minds together would could create quite an epic setting without the story needing to be "uber-powerful".

Grettir when you say you'd like to play an Achilles type of character, do you mean an invinsible warrior (like the later myths) or just an insane fighter (like in the Iliad, where if I'm not mistaken he is cut several times?)

In other words (and this question goes to Higgins aswell!) what kind of "power-level" would you all be interested in. Again keep in mind that this is all still hyperthetical, and saying one thing or another is not going to affect the setting as the setting does not exist nor is it in developent at this stage.

I myself would be happy with anything ranging from Movie-Conan to Iliad-Achilles, perhaps even Biblical-Samson!

I would be less comfortable with World Lifting Behemoths like Herakles, though men who can live up to most of what he does is no problem at all. Just not Superstrength beyond bending bars, smashing pillars and yes, even the occasional tearing down of city gates (though that is the upper limit for me I think).

Cheers & "God b' with ye!" (That's where we get the Word Goodbye from by the way )

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"It was hard-fought, a desperate affair that could have gone badly; if God had not helped me, the outcome would have been quick and fatal" (115) ~ Beowulf after defeating Grendle's Mother.

See, I’m often interested in either addressing themes that mean something to me personally, or failing that in doing something „fresh“. Playing some kind of giant towering over and well apart from lesser man has this freshness. Now as to specifics – I’d probably try to explore what problems it causes to be a class apart. Maybe somebody struggling to belong despite not really belonging, or maybe somebody who runs into trouble because he is estranged from his fellow men and makes no effort to see them as anything but inconsequential ants. Something like that could interest me about a super-hero.

I’ve often said that stories that appeal to me are those that address the human condition, vital and timeless issues of what it means to be human and how we deal with our everyday challenges. Throughout the ages, man’s worst enemy has most often been himself, so it’s the inner struggle that interests me. In a game about mythic heroes, that could well be simply not belonging, and the attempts to deal with estrangement. It’s not the slaying of enemies that interests me – that’s merely a fun diversion (I like a bit of action as much as the next man) and colour to support the real struggle. And the more powerful and invinvible the guy, the more pronounced his estrangement.

So I guess I’m actually most interested in a hero like Iliad-Achilles, a hero of the truly outstanding type. Standing out equals being isolated.

And I gues I've just found the theme that would for myself work best for a mythic hero game – isolation and the feeling of not belonging, and how to deal with it.

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My real name is Michael; use it, if you like.

Hmm, so a hypothetical Racial Chart might look something like:

A = Titans, gods etc.
B = Lesser Titans, lesser gods, Demigods.
C = Lesser Demigods, "Heroes"*, Oracles, Prophets.
D = Lesser "Heroes"*, Sorcerors.
E = "Chosen" or "Fated"**
F = Humans

Where "Heroes" are mortal descendants of Demigods, and "Chosen" or "Fated" are mortals who have been had some sort of porphecy told about them (by an oracle or prophet) or has been chosen by a god or other being do accomplish something.


Kronos would be a Titan, Zeus a god.
Thetis (a nymph) would be a lesser god, Herakles would be a Demigod.
Achilles would be a Lesser Demigod, and Odysseus would be a Hero (His the great grand-son of Hermes).

A good example of a Chosen would be the Biblical David, who although an ordinary man was selected by God to slay Goliath and then rule Israel. Chosen would perhaps get something like an extra Destiny SA or perhaps just the Gift Great Destiny, for free.

Then ofcourse there are the normal humans, though even from these ranks great heroes (not "Heroes" ) can arise, such as Conan, and even Jason (who I believe had no "divine" ancestory).

Thoughts?

Also, how many people would like me to start an actual Shared Setting Creatin thread?

Cheers!

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"It was hard-fought, a desperate affair that could have gone badly; if God had not helped me, the outcome would have been quick and fatal" (115) ~ Beowulf after defeating Grendle's Mother.

I like the fact that your racial chart is substantial in the benefits it provides, but at the same time I consider it way too early to design it. First, there should be a consensus considering the “power level” interested parties would like to play at.

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My real name is Michael; use it, if you like.

Lol, Michael this whole thread is way ahead of itself! Alot of what I'm discussing here has duel purpose, to generate interest in such a game, or rather to see if there is any interest, and also to help me figure things out for my home games.

I am however ready to start discussions of a Setting in earnest however (and not just an Epic Conan/Ancient Greek/Old Testament setting, but any setting). Though at this point I don't think there has been enough interest to warrant it yet.

I had hoped those who were watching the What Price Freedom game would wish to try their hand at Shared Setting Creation (SSC) aswell, but as of yet there seems to be no takers.

Perhaps I'll start by asking you (Grettir) if you are interested in playing a game (whatever it may end up being, depends on the SSC).

Once I get at least 3 players interested I'll open a Thread, until then use this one to test the waters, make suggestions or comment on other suggestions. We'll go from there. I'm pretty much willing to Ref for any type of game, so feel free to think outside the box, heck think outside the factory that makes the box if you want I don't care .

Cheers & God Bless!

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"It was hard-fought, a desperate affair that could have gone badly; if God had not helped me, the outcome would have been quick and fatal" (115) ~ Beowulf after defeating Grendle's Mother.

Supposing that you are not merely trying to get a game together but are actually offering yourself up as referee, I’ve got a few questions of my own to ask of you:

What style of game would you referee? I suppose Sim with a light sprinkling of Nar?

How interested are you personally, as a referee, to make the setting supportive of theme (any theme) and to have the story address and explore theme?

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My real name is Michael; use it, if you like.

Hey Grettir, yes I am willing to ref a game.

The game can be Nar, Sim or Gamist (well, maybe not gamist ) depending on what everyone wants to play. I think trying to strike a balance between Nar and Sim is best.

As long as everyone realises that my aility to Ref a Nar game will be no better than my ability to Play a Nar game Im new to it.

I'm defintely interested in SSC and creating the Setting to support the Theme, I'm also fine with the story addressing the Theme, ofcourse my ability to do so is what it is, as long as every keeps in mind that this would be my first PbP game that I've REf'd and that I am relatively new to bth Nar and SSC.

So I guess what I'm saying is I'm willing to cater to your style if you're willing to give me a chance, but I can't promise I'll get it spot on, but I will at all times be open for critisim and ideas.

Cheers!

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"It was hard-fought, a desperate affair that could have gone badly; if God had not helped me, the outcome would have been quick and fatal" (115) ~ Beowulf after defeating Grendle's Mother.

Crow Caller, I do believe there’s even less of a point for a referee than a player to game in any style he’s not totally comfortable with. Even in purely Nar gaming some kind of guiding hand is required of the referee, not as in railroading the story, but as in making sure it stays on track thematically and that its various threads stay connected and the fabric does not unravel; you see an analysis of me doing this for our current game in the Peanut Gallery thread, and most recently alo in my explanation why I chose exactly the powers I did for the Shoatli. Now it’s not that you could not do something like that as well, but even I, being familiar with that style, have to make a conscious effort to remember doing so – it’s quite likely that a referee less familiar and comfortable with the requirements of this particular style will either overlook, forget, or resent having to filter his plot twist through the sieve of story requirement.

What I want to say is that I think it best if you refereed a game in exactly the way you enjoy the most – you’ll probably be most successful and have the most fun yourself this way. And I guess what you’d enjoy the most would be a Sim/Nar hybrid leaning strongly to the Sim side, right?

The same goes for my question about your stance concerning addressing theme. What I’d like to know is not wether you are prepared to address theme, but rather wether doing so is a genuine wish of yours or not.

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My real name is Michael; use it, if you like.

The Hour of the Dragon was an imitation? What do you mean?

Oh, and since you refer to GRRM, have you had any chance to read his works? If so, I'd like to hear your opinion on the "wasted dialogue" there.

That gate-tearing scene always reminds me of Baron Münchausen stories.

I'd be more into the Conan/Achilleus stuff than to bare chested and oiled Greek Münchausen.

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"Brothels are a much sounder investment than ships, I've found. Whores seldom sink, and when they are boarded by pirates, why, the pirates pay good coin like everyone else."
- Lord Petyr Baelish, A Game of Thrones

Oh no, sorry, I wanted to encourage you to read more, and in chosing what to read to stay with the original stories – Hour of the Dragon is of course original.


I have been gifted the books half a year ago (by somebody who had bought them for himself and been disgusted by them) and I’ve read the first 2.000 or so pages of them. GRRM is a very gifted writer who knows a writer’s craft, and he creates not only a living and breathing fictional world and fills it with believable, many-faceted, and in part even un-clichéd characters he exposes through clever use of dialogue, but I hate the books and think the story -- if one can call it a story at all -- is nothing short of utter crap and I am not going to waste more of my time continuing to read it. As it happens, I recently mentioned to Ian in a PM that I fail to see how any publishing house could have ever accepted it for publication.

But then that’s not the topic of this thread.

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My real name is Michael; use it, if you like.

Well, even if you hated it, I think reading some A Song of Ice and Fire helped you understand better where my priorities lie in gaming.

P.S.
I created the Definition of a Story thread: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=299

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"Brothels are a much sounder investment than ships, I've found. Whores seldom sink, and when they are boarded by pirates, why, the pirates pay good coin like everyone else."
- Lord Petyr Baelish, A Game of Thrones

I'd be interested in a robin hood type game

I thought I'd bring this back up... but what about a game where the characters are the bad/good guys depending on who your asking. An assortment of people who, in some way or another have a cause greater than just getting by.

Good idea -- basically. Unfortunately, Crow Caller, the initiator of this thread and the person to pose its question in the first place, has gone missing for well over a month now...

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My real name is Michael; use it, if you like.

Well, as most of you know by now I'm back, and I'm ready to start GM'ing a game. At this stage my attention is on finishing What Price Freedom, but as it nears its end I want to kick off a new game.

What I want from people is to know who is interested in playing? Once I have atleast 3 interested players I'll start a Thread discussing Play Styles. When a consensus is reached then we'll move onto Shared Setting Creation, I'm assuming that all this will take about 2 weeks, at which point What Price Freedom should be nearing completion (unless something unforeseen happens to extend play).

The Actual game will not commense until What Price Freedom is finished.

So if you are interested then let me know, and start thinking about what style of play you want (not what game you want to play, but how you want to play it).

Cheers & God Bless!

PS: If there are more than 3 people interested in playing that is fine, the more the merrier.

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"It was hard-fought, a desperate affair that could have gone badly; if God had not helped me, the outcome would have been quick and fatal" (115) ~ Beowulf after defeating Grendle's Mother.