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 Post subject: Re: Grapple Rules
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 10:47 pm 
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I see grappling as one of the great equalizers of the game. It is the one thing heavily armored opponents need to avoid at all costs. Back in the day, that was the common means of taking down a knight. You teamed up on him and tackled him. After that, he was like a turtle on his back.

At the bottom of this post, I linked my grappling summary that I give to all my players. These are my rules for grappling.

One of the main changes is that armor has a significant penalty while grappling, adding a few CP activation costs to maneuvers, depending on how heavily armored you are. I also reduced the cost of the reversal to 1 CP, and added a defensive grapple maneuver called "resist" since the book only has break away and reversal, but no option for just resisting your opponent. I also added a specialization path for players who have the wrestling proficiency, representing the style of their trained form. For instance Judo has a specialization of Throws, so all throws made by someone with the judo specialization get +1CP. I have also removed most of the "snowballing" except from a reversal. Lastly, as an individual trained in Jeet Kune Do, I thought the ability to really hit a person where it hurts was severely lacking. So, I added a new category along side throws, traps, breaks and strikes, called "Dirty Tricks".Dirty tricks include: Finger Snap, Eye Gouge, Throat Gouge, Groin Strike, and Bite. Each of them has a special rule that I think works great.

All in all, I have been loving grappling, and so have my players, since we have come to these common rules. Let me know any thoughts or suggestions for improvement.


http://files.thewestwinds.net/tros/gene ... ummary.pdf

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 Post subject: Re: Grapple Rules
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 6:59 am 
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theWestWinds wrote:
I see grappling as one of the great equalizers of the game. It is the one thing heavily armored opponents need to avoid at all costs. Back in the day, that was the common means of taking down a knight. You teamed up on him and tackled him. After that, he was like a turtle on his back.


Conceptually, I don't agree with this premise. Plate armour -- aside from the highly specialised jousting armour of the late middle ages -- wasn't heavy enough to have this effect.

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 Post subject: Re: Grapple Rules
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 10:20 pm 
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theWestWinds wrote:
All in all, I have been loving grappling, and so have my players, since we have come to these common rules. Let me know any thoughts or suggestions for improvement.
While being quite mechanic-heavy and full of special rules, I like the addition of dirty tricks, but it's kind of tough for me to give you good feedback. Grapple rules in TROS have always been to me like Turning rules in D&D. It's a core thing, but everybody always needs to check the book if they come into play. :oops:

Not that I play D&D. :shock:

Honest! :D

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 Post subject: Re: Grapple Rules
PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 4:29 pm 
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higgins wrote:
theWestWinds wrote:
All in all, I have been loving grappling, and so have my players, since we have come to these common rules. Let me know any thoughts or suggestions for improvement.
While being quite mechanic-heavy and full of special rules

Most of the stuff in my summary follows the standard rules. I feel like its as mechanic heavy as, um... TROS COMBAT! :lol:

But I did add in some stuff. I think the biggest help was just distilling all the fluff and junk they have in the TFoB grappling rules into a few pages of straight rules.

It might seem like a lot, but if you think about it, this is not just the grappling rules. This is the grappling rules and ALL of the grappling maneuvers. A list of all of the standard combat maneuvers and rules is far more lengthy (I have a summary I wrote up for those too, and it is far more lengthy).

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 Post subject: Re: Grapple Rules
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:29 pm 
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theWestWinds wrote:
Most of the stuff in my summary follows the standard rules. I feel like its as mechanic heavy as, um... TROS COMBAT! :lol:
What I mainly meant was these... ST/TO don't apply, use half AV, max wound level 3 special rules, which all admittedly make sense but aren't exactly intuitive.

This is something to consider for EoS -- a new category of WRENCHING damage. :mrgreen:

By that, I mean damage that get from awkward body positioning and don't benefit from AR (and maybe event TO) protection, such as joint locks, etc. It would be an interesting area to explore...

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 Post subject: Re: Grapple Rules
PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 6:02 pm 
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Ian.Plumb wrote:
theWestWinds wrote:
I see grappling as one of the great equalizers of the game. It is the one thing heavily armored opponents need to avoid at all costs. Back in the day, that was the common means of taking down a knight. You teamed up on him and tackled him. After that, he was like a turtle on his back.


Conceptually, I don't agree with this premise. Plate armour -- aside from the highly specialised jousting armour of the late middle ages -- wasn't heavy enough to have this effect.

Regards,

So, after doing some research, I have found that this is largely true. I was wrong. The one exception may be that the armor is designed to distribute the weight evenly while standing. While prone, it seems the weight distribution would get messed up. I ma not sure if I should try and work this in or not. I just like the idea of grappling being the resort when you realize you need 6 successes to even do a L1 wound to your heavily armored opponent.

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 Post subject: Re: Grapple Rules
PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 11:20 pm 
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theWestWinds wrote:
So, after doing some research, I have found that this is largely true. I was wrong. The one exception may be that the armor is designed to distribute the weight evenly while standing. While prone, it seems the weight distribution would get messed up. I ma not sure if I should try and work this in or not. I just like the idea of grappling being the resort when you realize you need 6 successes to even do a L1 wound to your heavily armored opponent.


If you have two plate armoured combatants then I think it is almost inevitable that they will end up grappling at some point, as preparation for an attempt at half-swording or to win the fight through grappling itself. Magic aside, if they simply swing at each other and there's only a small CP difference between them that fight will probably go on for a very long time.

As such, the grapple rules are important and players should be encouraged to explore them and understand them. Your mods encourage that so I think you've done a good job there.

Regards,

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 Post subject: Re: Grapple Rules
PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2011 9:27 am 
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I just know I'm missing something obvious here, but what is the Grapple TN for initiating a clinch, as per TFoB p33-34? I can't see it anywhere. Cheers.

Edit: never mind, I found it. The word "grapple" appears to have gone missing in the pdf version of the Natural Weapons table, Core p256.

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